Question / leasing agreement $$ compensation?

[NightOwl]

Hey petedabroker, what does it mean on the lease this new term, (new term to me anyway) you will be paid on a certain percent (just for the record say 76%) but at adjusted gross revenue? Other leases I have had just state payment on gross revenue of what collected from customer. I recently heard a motor carrier agent ( TGXfreight ) who was not paying percentage on the full gross revenue. His truckers got hold of a freight bill and saw the rate then compared it to what the % was supposed to be but it didn't come out right. The agent said the motor carrier he represented was paying the % of load only on adjusted gross. Now I am looking at changing companies but this new company has this same language on their leasing agreement. What gives with this? Is this legal or what? If it is where the heck do they come up with an adjustment on gross revenue? Sounds like another scam..

[petedabroker]

Scam, Scam, Scam, Scam.
They use verbage like that in order to cloud the issue of payment. I have seen this before and it basically means they can pay you whatever they see fit.
Some companies will tell you its the amount after everything unknown is taken out.
You folks got to stick together and say enough is enough. You ask them what Adjusted Gross Revenue is, and you will get 1000 different answers. If you are an OO, and pay for your own fuel, what else needs to be adjusted? Your lease , not unlike a rental property lease, or any other lease , needs to be clear, everything done without mis-understanding. This not only protects you but the lease company. The more times they are taking to court, the clearer the leases will become. That simple. No one wants to be sued. Ask them what adjustements are they making. They will tell you none. Say, ok, then let me see the invoices sent to your customer. They will say no. You say, ok, then I am taking this matter to court, you file for $35.00 a civil case against them. They or any other firm , needs to give the customers support documentation in terms of a percentage paid. They could be sued criminally for not doing such. That is called fraud. Plain and simple, fraud. Its criminal, not civil. As soon as your lease reads percentage paid, you have every right to verify how that percentage was determined. Call your State Attorney General's Office, jump through the hoops they give you, explain to them in a letter your firm is operating under unfair business practices. You might also need to contact the Federal Trade Commission for help, but regardless as to who the government agency is, you will be treated fairly. If found they cannot support the charges dealt to your lease agreement, they will need to make restitution to you and could be charged criminally for their actions. Have all the drivers contact the SAGO together , they could file a class action suit against the lease company. If they burn documents or alike , they are really in a lot of trouble. Remember if you signed a lease stating Adjusted gross revenue, then you got some problems here. You need clarification of any deductions. Example you lease needs to spell out what those deductions could be, like failure to return empty to the pier, failure to return container in good order. Yes, they can take money away from you for the damage of a container, but even there you have the right to see if the insurance company they use actually paid for the damages and if that answer is yes, you get the funds back. They might keep a deductable or alike, but you can claim the rest back. If they keep it, that is called insurance fraud. Again, criminally prosecuted. Now here is what a lease (good lease) might say about deductions.
Drivers are paid on a gross amount. We with-hold the right to make deductions based on out of pocket cost. Those cost must be valid#1, and must be clearly stated on each and every settlement sheet to the dirver related to payments made. They cannot just say, hey thingy, you owe me for a container damage. The floor had a hole in it when you returned it. You can dispute that claim , stating the shipper damaged the floor and I made him state that on the dock receipt and he holds full responsibility for the damage. I want my money back. I am not trying to be a thingy here, but for goodness sake, act like the business man/woman you are, and not just take whatever the agent says as gospel. They all lie. They all cheat.

[countrygirl]

Thanks very much for answering these important questions

[carolinatrucker]

These truckin companies try to screw every driver yet they are advertizing more than ever at every fuel stop for O/O's between Charleston,SC & Savannah, GA. I think soon the well is going to run dry here in the South. I already see a little bit of a rate increase over the last few weeks. Just wait till the TWIC card starts DEC 1st at the two sister ports.

[petedabroker]

Get enthusiastic, just not overly enthusiastic. TWIC card will reduce drivers available for pier work. But only on a temp basis. They will catch up. What I am afraid will happen is the prices will start to rise, good rates will prevail, then back to the same old same old in two months. When a steamship line quotes a door to door move, its done sometimes months before the shipment even moves. Remember their estimate of cost is either a home run or a foul ball. If rates increase, then they lose money. If trucking rates decrease or they negotiate a better rate with another carrier , then they win. S/S Lines need a minimum a month to upgrade rates on all door to door moves. Remember these are the same idiots, who at one time were fully exempt from anti-trust. They could at one time formulate a group called a conference. Those members could set prices, sort of in collution with each other and being perfectly legal. They were not happy with that type of arrangement. They would still cut each others throats by taking what was known as independant actions. Sort of like a contract outside of their conference. They would go after big shippers/importers and cut separate contracts with lower rates. They killed their own industry and now they want to kill your industry, the truckers.

I have little doubt that your trucking companies are taking advantage of you and your rate structures. But remember one thing, you are allowing that to happen. That stuff happens when the actual carrier is facing real problems. At least most of the time. Some just steal because they are theives. If they sold cars, they would sell junkers, thats just the type they are. But others are doing it to surive. You need to get those rates up and keep them up. TWIC cards will be a stop gap measure, allowing you to make more money on a temporary basis. Use that money to save. Use that money to get something started here. Don't squander this opportunity.

[carolinatrucker]

my thoughts exactly. i think it's a temporary boost to the rate structure and they will pay more of what they are already holding back of our money to begin with. my guess is maybe a come back in 2009 for freight but we had better take advantage of it, build this group and go for a contract somehow!

[petedabroker]

Now we are talking. Nothing is ever accomplished without a plan. If more would look at this as an opportunity to stop all the crap, once and for all. Honestly, its seems like OO's just love the drama here. Each year something else happens to stir up the hornets nest, but along comes a couple of Jacksons, and pockets get a little full and it all goes right back where it was, in the ditches. Personally, I don't like drama, don't like surprises, don't like the lack of stability. I want a good job for all, paying well, the more you work, the more you make. As I stated before, during the long ILA strikes of the 50's &60's, most dock workers saved bonds to be used during the strike periods. It was their personal insurance policy. We all know strikes are bad for the companies, bad for business, bad for your personally, but what other choices do you all have? There is none, so get this union together, get in a position of having a hammer and not a plastic water gun. At your current position, you are made to fail. They know that and you know that. Get a couple $10,000 in the bank. Get your acts together during the better periods, and by that time the union availability will be present. Prepare. Now not later. Take the profits from one run per week and bank it, never to be used until you are in need. Prepare. One year of holding off buying unnecessary items, will put you in position for years of having the ability to buy whatever you so desire. Prepare.

[phantom309]

Yeah, the immediate plan is show the rest of these drivers pulling cheap boxes the light before it's too late. If it takes the rest of 2008 do this at least that will be an accomplishment to start off the new year right. It's not like freight is going to be busting loose wide open at the port this peak season. We should all be concentrating on building a real plan of action for the new year.

[petedabroker]

Phantom309, your computer shadowed , head covered, messenger of death scares me a little. It tells me their is pending doom here. I believe the OO's are either unable or unwilling to admit to their own pending demise. Their responce is a simple tone, hey, the FSC is a problem, but other than that its getting ok at the piers. Not to realize their way of life is now threatened , more now than ever before. Yes, its not a pretty picture there, but nor is the life of a threatened species, named Owner Operator. I can picture this all now, whereas a man takes his son to a museaum, son asking dad, what is that picture of that man standing at the side of that old truck. Son, he was called an owner operator, but now extinct. Yes, he represented the best in America, son, hard working, commited, tax paying, but times changed and he went by the way of the Polar Bear. His working conditions changed and he was helpless to adapt. Large firms arrived and put him out of business. He tried son to join into a union but all the odds were against him. Then there was that attempt to show unity back in 2008 whereas he was asked to run his rig around the piers of all the ports in the country showing his power, showing his numbers, voicing his concerns. Yet he refused to do such. Yes, son , those were the men of men at one time. Oh, son look over there, that guy was called an airplane pilot, but its all done with computers now. Gentleman/ladies, it does not need to end this way. Its all your call.

[petedabroker]

Bravo, Exactly correct on all concerns. Company's seem to believe this is only an OO problem, without full scope of its full intentions. I said for years the Steamship Companies are planning something big. I would be willing to bet if all the pells of the onion were made, there stands a group of steamship companies in its shadows. You cannot believe how powerful Maersk/Moller, Evergreen, MSC, and others really are with our governments. Once we allowed route coded containers to be moved for the steamship lines, it was almost all over then. They want control without expences. Now they got just that. Inland movemnt of containers were the only practices at the terminal that were not completely controled. Now they too will be.
Regards,
Peter

[HUDDTrucker]

Maersk-Sealand is who owns the company we lease to. HUDD is a good example of a trucking company to stay away from. I thought being owned by Maersk they would pay well. I couldn't have been more wrong. Management lies to everyone and has no respect for owner^operators here. There are several of us looking for another carrier to move our trucks to. Maybe somebody from this board can suggest another motor carrier?

[petedabroker]

I had thought that Maersk/Sealand owned BTT only and sold that out years ago. I am a little surprised to learn that Maersk is still in portal trucking. Anytime you are with a carrier , who is actually a Steamship company, their rates are usually very poor and I shall explain. They quote their customers a door to door rate, so anything they can get you to move cheaper, goes directly into their pockets. Example- say the ocean friehgt is $800/20' container from Egypt. Their final destination is Columbia, S.C.. They add the $800 + $700 for inland freight and quote $1500 door to door. Now the container arrives, They tell you it pays $400, they just put in their pocket $300 off the top and plus the percentage they are making on the $400. They sort of brokered it out and still acted like a trucking company. If they say they don't do that, they are lying. Remember they also made money on the ocean freight portion. They have ruined the ocean freight business, so now they want to ruin the container drayage portion. If all drivers there, quit, those containers would show up on the general market at a much higher rate. They operate without a broker license. They are only legal because they are quoting a through rate or door to door rate, combining ocean freight with inland freight. For now , they can get away with it. I believe the FTC will be looking into this practice very closely. How are your leases drawn up? Do they pay you a percentage of the gross paying load? If they say that in the lease, you have a really good case against them for a bunch of money. Once investigated, the courts could see the lease reads say 70% of the gross, and they can also see they been playing with the gross payment. Remember the ocean freight is always a separate issue. Even if they say the ocean frieght was $1100 and inland was $400, the courts could ask to see other ocean frieght and determine that the amount they posted was done in a deceitful manner, thus avoiding full payment to the drivers. Lets say the ocean freight was for chicken parts , frozen reefer. Lets say Perdue pays them $800 for ocean freight and handles the inland themselves. The court will look at the usual amount of ocean freight for the same product , to a different shipper and deterimine that ocean freight should be the same. You could end up getting a whole lot of money off of a case like that. If there are 20 drivers in the same situation, you could file a class action suit and most lawyers would welcome such numbers. Just think about all the freight you moved and the difference in the rates as to what they paid versus what they quoted and then your new percentage of the gross. That my friend is a lot of money. If you lawyer needs help in getting the case together , I would be happy to advise them.
Regard,s
PEter

[citytrkagnt]

these O/O drivers sued BTT in a class action over some of these very same issues around four years ago. last year they were awarded 6.4 million in $$.
fyi, both are still owned by maersk/a.p.moller

[petedabroker]

Thanks for the info citytrkagnt,
If I were to guess 6.4 million was not taken seriously? By Moller and others did not learn from those mistakes?
Peter