Possible Solution

[findthatmoney]

Power in numbers, this is not a suggestion of forming a conglomerate, this is possible . A carrier with 100 or how about 150 owner operators ran by owner operators we hire the salesman we hire the dispatchers we have a huge leg up on competition . We could easily have a shop for repairs and a storage facility for containers and chassis. Over time the brokers who deal directly with ship lines and customers Importing and Exporting would be calling to give work , Rates could be changed , our voice would be Superior service because we have the tractors . We would know what we are getting paid and the guys that like local moves could get that work and the guys that like the road work could get that . I think the phone would ring off the hook.

[shortcircut]

reguardless of who is running it, another comapny is NOT the solution. Unifying the drivers has to be the first priority , reguardless of who they are leased to. and for God's sake, don't forget the company drivers. they can help as well . If we profit from moving containers, they will too.

[findthatmoney]

Listen , to many carriers cutting rates that is the problem , why do you think cutting out a bunch of those non paying placard holders would not help the rates go up.

[shortcircut]

exactly , more hands in the cookie jar is not the answer. joining together in force has to be first priority

[HardTimeTrucker]

Feb 13, 2010 18:45:39 GMT -5 findthatmoney said:

Power in numbers, this is not a suggestion of forming a conglomerate, this is possible . A carrier with 100 or how about 150 owner operators ran by owner operators we hire the salesman we hire the dispatchers we have a huge leg up on competition . We could easily have a shop for repairs and a storage facility for containers and chassis. Over time the brokers who deal directly with ship lines and customers Importing and Exporting would be calling to give work , Rates could be changed , our voice would be Superior service because we have the tractors . We would know what we are getting paid and the guys that like local moves could get that work and the guys that like the road work could get that . I think the phone would ring off the hook.

Although I really don't want to go into a lot of detail on here because we have sooooooo_ many eyes or maybe the word spy's is more to the point, I will say we have done considerable work on these subjects including a couple of studies by two different research groups. The plan your talking about would fall under an ESOP
Employee Stock Ownership Plan

A much better way we found by preparing the two studies would be to form a type port trucker co-op similar to a farmers co-op much friendlier tax wise and less legal issues. The ultimate fix without letting the cat out of the bag would be a couple of these strategies under the protected umbrella of a company driver/owner-operator hiring hall. I would be happy to meet with anyone to share the full details of this operation but will not discuss anything in full on the forum. I can say,we know for a fact that this plan would include several trucking companies and there are several un-named companies right now who would certainly step up to the plate to become part of the ultimate solution. These folk are not stupid. they know what it would mean as you say to instantly have a Lyon's share of the truckers suddenly legally come over to them if the right situation were to present itself

How an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP) Works

Employee ownership can be accomplished in a variety of ways.

Employees can buy stock directly, be given it as a bonus, can receive stock options, or obtain stock through a profit sharing plan. Some employees become owners through worker cooperatives where everyone has an equal vote. But by far the most common form of employee ownership in the U.S. is the ESOP, or employee stock ownership plan. Almost unknown until 1974, about 11,000 companies now have these plans, covering over 13 million employees.

Companies can use ESOPs for a variety of purposes.

Contrary to the impression one can get from media accounts, ESOPs are almost never used to save troubled companies—only at most a handful of such plans are set up each year. Instead, ESOPs are most commonly used to provide a market for the shares of departing owners of successful closely held companies, to motivate and reward employees, or to take advantage of incentives to borrow money for acquiring new assets in pretax dollars. In almost every case, ESOPs are a contribution to the employee, not an employee purchase.

ESOP Rules

An ESOP is a kind of employee benefit plan, similar in some ways to a profit-sharing plan. In an ESOP, a company sets up a trust fund, into which it contributes new shares of its own stock or cash to buy existing shares. Alternatively, the ESOP can borrow money to buy new or existing shares, with the company making cash contributions to the plan to enable it to repay the loan. Regardless of how the plan acquires stock, company contributions to the trust are tax-deductible, within certain limits.

Shares in the trust are allocated to individual employee accounts. Although there are some exceptions, generally all full-time employees over 21 participate in the plan. Allocations are made either on the basis of relative pay or some more equal formula. As employees accumulate seniority with the company, they acquire an increasing right to the shares in their account, a process known as vesting. Employees must be 100% vested within three to six years, depending on whether vesting is all at once (cliff vesting) or gradual.

When employees leave the company, they receive their stock, which the company must buy back from them at its fair market value (unless there is a public market for the shares). Private companies must have an annual outside valuation to determine the price of their shares. In private companies, employees must be able to vote their allocated shares on major issues, such as closing or relocating, but the company can choose whether to pass through voting rights (such as for the board of directors) on other issues. In public companies, employees must be able to vote all issues.

Uses for ESOPs

To buy the shares of a departing owner: Owners of privately held companies can use an ESOP to create a ready market for their shares. Under this approach, the company can make tax-deductible cash contributions to the ESOP to buy out an owner's shares, or it can have the ESOP borrow money to buy the shares

To borrow money at a lower after-tax cost:
ESOPs are unique among benefit plans in their ability to borrow money. The ESOP borrows cash, which it uses to buy company shares or shares of existing owners. The company then makes tax-deductible contributions to the ESOP to repay the loan, meaning both principal and interest are deductible.

To create an additional employee benefit: A company can simply issue new or treasury shares to an ESOP, deducting their value (for up to 25% of covered pay) from taxable income. Or a company can contribute cash, buying shares from existing public or private owners. In public companies, which account for about 5% of the plans and about 40% of the plan participants, ESOPs are often used in conjunction with employee savings plans. Rather than matching employee savings with cash, the company will match them with stock from an ESOP, often at a higher matching level.

Major Tax Benefits

ESOPs have a number of significant tax benefits, the most important of which are:

Contributions of stock are tax-deductible: That means companies can get a current cash flow advantage by issuing new shares or treasury shares to the ESOP, albeit this means existing owners will be diluted.

Cash contributions are deductible: A company can contribute cash on a discretionary basis year-to-year and take a tax deduction for it, whether the contribution is used to buy shares from current owners or to build up a cash reserve in the ESOP for future use.

Contributions used to repay a loan the ESOP takes out to buy company shares are tax-deductible: The ESOP can borrow money to buy existing shares, new shares, or treasury shares.

Regardless of the use, the contributions are deductible, meaning ESOP financing is done in pretax dollars.

Sellers in a C corporation can get a tax deferral: In C corporations, once the ESOP owns 30% of all the shares in the company, the seller can reinvest the proceeds of the sale in other securities and defer any tax on the gain.

In S corporations, the percentage of ownership held by the ESOP is not subject to income tax at the federal level (and usually the state level as well): That means, for instance, that there is no income tax on 30% of the profits of an S corporation with an ESOP holding 30% of the stock, and no income tax at all on the profits of an S corporation wholly owned by its ESOP. Note, however, that the ESOP still must get a pro-rata share of any distributions the company makes to owners.

Dividends are tax-deductible: Reasonable dividends used to repay an ESOP loan, passed through to employees, or reinvested by employees in company stock are tax-deductible.

Employees pay no tax on the contributions to the ESOP, only the distribution of their accounts, and then at potentially favorable rates: The employees can roll over their distributions in an IRA or other retirement plan or pay current tax on the distribution, with any gains accumulated over time taxed as capital gains. The income tax portion of the distributions, however, is subject to a 10% penalty if made before normal retirement age.

Note that all contribution limits are subject to certain limitations, although these rarely pose a problem for companies.

C

As attractive as these tax benefits are, however, there are limits and drawbacks. The law does not allow ESOPs to be used in partnerships and most professional corporations. ESOPs can be used in S corporations, but do not qualify for the rollover treatment discussed above and have lower contribution limits. Private companies must repurchase shares of departing employees, and this can become a major expense. The cost of setting up an ESOP is also substantial—perhaps $40,000 for the simplest of plans in small companies and on up from there. Any time new shares are issued, the stock of existing owners is diluted. That dilution must be weighed against the tax and motivation benefits an ESOP can provide. Finally, ESOPs will improve corporate performance only if combined with opportunities for employees to participate in decisions affecting their work.

[findthatmoney]

Uniting together as a dominate force in moveing those containers , not standing around picketing. Lets beat this system at their own game.

[findthatmoney]

Hardtimetrucker thank you for hitting the nail on the head , that is and will be the only way to do it. say bye bye rate cutting placard holders.

[shortcircut]

the only way we can be DOMINANT force is by putting aside all our differences and standing together as one large, strong group

[findthatmoney]

Shortcircut, we sit in lines with the same guys everyday, we practicly follow each other around from port to port, why not be one large unified dominate money making force.One placard for all or maybe two or maybe three not fifty differant placard holders cutting rates to get that turn, come on man you have got to love the thought.

[HardTimeTrucker]

It's simple math, whomever controls the trucks moves the customers freight. Even as big as Wal-Mart is they too will pay like everyone else if we demonstrate we have the guts to turn off the switch. They will find the money to make sure truckers share in their rightful piece of the pie. Right now we control nothing but that's truly our d**n fault.

[shortcircut]

yes, but unifying the drivers off the ports has to be done first. Once and if , that happens , the rest of the puzzle will come together so fast no one will know what the hell happened

[HardTimeTrucker]

The beauty of this type strategy is it very well could be five or forty companies who are signed into the "agreement" but we all operate under the same standards, same rules, same money, same benefits, no matter what company placard is on the door.

More later I have got to go for now.

[shortcircut]

I agree Hard Time. we have to get all the drivers on the same page , then maybe form a completely owned and controlled Owner Op company , but only when every one is ready to play for the same team. I know some greedy bastards, both drivers and agants , who will do anything to keep others from getting a piece of the pie

[HardTimeTrucker]

BTW: Yes, one of the companies could be a cooperative driver ownership carrier where you also get a dividend check size dependent on how well the operation performs. A non-profit co-operative cannot bank a profit other than operational expenses.

[shortcircut]

well, with scum agents like at Evans Delivery and Time Dispatch , Service Transfer , Starve -u , oh sorry , I mean Serve -u , we have a long and serious fight on our hands

[findthatmoney]

Wouldn't be hard at all when they have no more owner operators with their placards on the door, who would pull for them, they would be HISTORY.

[shortcircut]

well , trying to get it through the thick heads of the drivers, that it would benifit them, is the first hurdle, and a very big hurdle( MT. Everest) to get past . once that happens , people will understand. I heard a guy talking once before about his constitutional rights. he needs to get past that. the ports and steam ship line own the property , there fore they make the rules. we as one large group will have to push , maybe even break those as one large entity , let no one fall alone.

[shortcircut]

hey , findthatmoney , I sent an email to you, when you get a chance, lets talk off this site.

[coolbreeze]

Feb 13, 2010 22:35:27 GMT -5 HardTimeTrucker said:

BTW: Yes, one of the companies could be a cooperative driver ownership carrier where you also get a dividend check size dependent on how well the operation performs. A non-profit co-operative cannot bank a profit other than operational expenses.

i would like to hear more about this. iam a trucker hauling out of the wilmington,nc ports. i lease to nc based carrier who does only port wk. we haul to charleston and back mostly.every week is a fight on what they left off ck. i am ready for something.this is not working the way they treat us. i think other drivers at this company would join.

[kevin202]

OK you sucked me in. I am willing to join with you guys. Yes I think we should all be working under some kind of contract so how do we accomplish that?

[phantom309]

Feb 13, 2010 22:20:07 GMT -5 HardTimeTrucker said:

It's simple math, whomever controls the trucks moves the customers freight. Even as big as Wal-Mart is they too will pay like everyone else if we demonstrate we have the guts to turn off the switch. They will find the money to make sure truckers share in their rightful piece of the pie. Right now we control nothing but that's truly our d**n fault.

Your right on the money hardtime. It's always been about control. Right now we under their control(so to speak)but that could end quickly if drivers ever fully realize the power we have working together. We move all their goods at the ports. Unless there is a door to door rail spur they are helpless.

[o]

If we find any of our drivers posting on this site YOUR LEASE WILL BE TERMINATED. You know who I'm talking about. We had this conversation the other day so consider this final warning.

[saywhat]

Who ever this O person is you, got some huge cahoness

[shortcircut]

actually he has no balls. if he wants to hide, it just shows every one what a coward he is

[shortcircut]

you know, It is a shame that some piece of crap lowlife , wants to come on a site like this and threaten a driver just because he wants to. Kind of reminds me of that piece of crap low life Tommy White who threatened any driver who is pro oganizing owner ops. He is the scum of the earth, actually , he isn't even that good.