Virginia OOC assoc

[petedabroker]

So far this year alone, California wild fires have burned over 1,157,930 acres, and still counting. Untold amount of homes. Untold amount of pollution as its results. Do you see the port running to stop that one? Do you see the teamsters lending a helping hand there? That estimate is as follows:
The amount of pollution placed upon California as a result of the wild fires is 7,454 times the amount of pollution as a result of truck exhaust, and believe it or not, the whole amount of auto emissions done in two years by their own driving public. Do you see California trying to cut down or mow under hill growth? Do you see California cutting down trees to prevent such? No is that answer, you just see millions of dollars spent on putting them out, and thousands of their citizens having their homes destroyed, and thousands of their fire fighters being placed into harms way. Millions being spent on aerial drops of water and fire retardants, but not one dollar, being spent on prevention. Tell you something about how mis-directed California is?

[petedabroker]

Do you see California changing building codes, to demand fire retardant roofs, or construction of mortar instead of wood? No they want to stop 1985 trucks from calling the pier. These are the facts, unbiased and in their face.

[petedabroker]

Oh, the best point is, remember when a house burns, its not only the wood, its the plastic pipes, spewing of insulation materials into the air, rubber tires on the autos, and a whole host of other very toxic pollutants. Wonder anyone can breath in California, and its the truckers fault for more sulfur? Get a F.U.C.K.I.N.G. life California. Wake up and smell your stinky and polluted air, certainly not being caused in any real part by the trucking community.

[OOC]

Nov 18, 2008 8:21:36 GMT -5 petedabroker said:

I am stating my opinion honestly here, not meaning to offend.
Paul, you have not a snowballs chance in hell , if you have any contact with the Steamship Lines in any decision making policy with your organization. I don't know how much clearer I could of painted that picture in my above posting. They will wine, dine, and puke all over your shirt. Remember you are dealing with the devil that started the whole mess. Yes, devil, not even as harsh as I wanted to be there. We are doing things behind the scene here. We are guided by one known fact. Never, never talk to the Steamship Lines. They quite honestly have nothing to add to our group. They will however be quite involved in changing their tactics as a result of our organization. That is how you deal with them, strong armed, hammer in hand, and beating them over the head.
Yes, they can read somethings we do but never the real good stuff here. We sort of let them read what we want them to read. How can you even suggest , their participation will add one thing, knowing they were behind this whole mess? How??? How can you members have even a shade of hope it will work out?
Let me ask you this very important question. Who do you think is also behind the California Green thing. Is it just the Teamsters that are trying to guide the labor issue? Who might benefit the most from controlled labor? Answer: Yes , the Teamsters and mostly the Steamship Lines. Do you believe the Teamsters are footing the whole bill there? Brother, you better put on your thinking cap. Why have they (i.e.) the Steamship Lines, not made even one public comment, when whatever happens in LA/LB has a very drastic effect on them? Why? Because they already are there, they already are helping, but all behind the scenes, like the little worms they are, always were, and always will be.

So basically, by including them into your group, you lie with the devil themselves. Your followers will go in the direction they promote. They give very little and take much. Right now, and as we speak, all of your members, including ours are servicing the Steamship Lines for free. Right now and as we speak, we are doing untold amounts of free container moves to both secure wheels and get equipment serviced. I can say this and without any doubt, this will all come to an end, and we will be getting our money back from them. I know this will happen , with the efforts of this organization. We will get them out of domestic transportation business, knowing they had no business being there int he first place. We will force them to service us well at the terminals, and nothing for free anymore. After all their very jobs were to make equipment available on both a safe and timely manner. Never , ever have they done that.
Here is a typical conversation between one of our union trucking companies and the Steamship Lines. Good morning Mr. Steamship, I was calling to verify that these ten containers were steamship cleared, custom cleared, mounted and ready to be pulled? No, you say, you are a grounded line and my driver needs to get a set of wheels, at your chassis depot and go and have it mounted themselves. Well do me a favor and call me when they are mounted. I will confirm all you stated on an email and send a copy to my importer and their CHB.
Good morning, Mr. Trucker here. Oh, how are you doing Mr. Steamship Company. Oh, the containers are mounted and ready to go. Gee, thanks so much , we will make all the moves today.
Have a great day sir. Paul, that is what will happen with us. I have no idea how your drivers will be handled. Remember Paul, they don't own that freight, my importer does. They are contracted to move it via ocean transport and make it available to be picked up. That is all they will do in future. Best of all, when delays happen, the fingers now get pointed in the direction of the delayer and not the trucker, as it should of been all along. Not enough labor at the terminals, not enough wheels, wheels that are in bad order, too much congestion, not the truckers problem, its the line problem. Importer/Exporter paying truckers for delays caused by the line, they move their business, to another line that services their needs in a cost effective and reasonable manner.
That simple. They cannot run and hide anymore, and certainly cannot blame others for their own deficiencies. The cat is out of the bag.

Pete,

You keep talking about the steamship lines. We are NOT involved with them save trying to get them to take responsibility for their equipment and get it fixed reducing driver trips to M&R. I can't figure why you keep assuming otherwise.
We work work to communicate issues to the Port's operations dept, community leaders , and political representatives.

[OOC]

Nov 18, 2008 5:54:31 GMT -5 pkd5757 said:

Hey OOC or Paul, You've said my deletion was a mistake. I tried to sign back on your sight and it says my account hasn't been approved yet. Then you told me to send you an email if it wasn't fixed, I did. Still nothing! If you don't want to make the connections with other ports, then you are doomed to fail in your endeavors. We all have to have some unity on the east coast or the Teamsters and the Environmental groups are going to come in and crucify the O/O's as in LA. All I want is to open the communication between the O/O's in every port and let all the ideas circulate. If your afraid of that then your no better than the organizations you say your fighting against.

PKD,

You have an email awaiting in your inbox. I had to email our tech guy because the user admin is showing you as active. give a guy a chance to reply before making any assumptions .

[petedabroker]

Paul, Each and every formation of a group , in the past, has going in the exact same direction as you are doing (I guess what you are doing).
You had stated yourself , that Steamship Lines have been contacted , with participation, along with ports, and politicians.
Paul, stack them all up. They are the same. Have the same portal opinions, and support each others positions. How might one take on a group that sings together at the port? Not one of them will stand alone for the rights of drivers. They could care less what drivers need, want, or require. That is clear as crystal , for the simple fact, nothing has changed in 30 years, and only has gotten worse.

Ok, now you say they are really talking to you. I say if they are, its only to gain information as to what your intentions are. I say, they did the same for those 30 years. Nothing has, will and will never change unless we force those issues. Squeaky wheel no longer needs oiling, it needs to be replaced with a different means of handling the problem. I try hard, not to put words in your mouth. I am commenting on things you have said here.
Yes, all you described, are part of the Steamship Lines group of buddies. I am not blaming the ports for their positions. They feel a real need to appease those lines for the benefit of their ports. I don't blame the politicians to support the portal needs. After all they get re-election funds, and many other benefits from them. I blame the truckers for not realizing their true power. We know our enemies here. We know that won't work. We don't want a relationship with the group you include. That is not to say when our position is firm, we will not allow contact to happen. No, we will for now never include any of those groups into our plans. Why should we? They are the adversary's here. Have you ever had a phone call, an email, sent by any of that group, asking for your participation in determining better portal service? No, and you never shall , and if you did, they did such to gain information to combat you. They do what they want without consideration of its trucking partners.

Trucking has never had any position with the portal community. Why? Simple , no organization. No organization that has any sort of hammer. We will and now have that hammer. Negotiate with them for now? Never. You can. We won't. You follow that road to no where. Paul, you might believe you will get their ear. You will never get that ear. Power will get that ear. Hammers will get that ear. I already know their position, so why should I want to develop a relationship with a group that has no intention of changing anything? We don't. They lie, cheat, and steal drivers money. How can you believe any relationship for a powerless positon will change the tigers stripes?

[shortcircut]

Pete , you are wasting your time and breath. The guys here think they are doing something new and that every one will listen to them.
The previous groups thought the same thing and look where they are , gone.
These guys are trying to reinvent the wheel ( manner of speaking) and since the Feb. meeting , where I introduced some of them to Jim Stewart , have accomplished absolutely nothing.
They want so bad to believe that they are making a difference , and are not. If they would just listen to the poeple who have been in this fight for a long time, maybe this group could learn from the previous mistakes that the others made.
It all comes down to numbers( membership).
To be taken serious, the majority of drivers and companies have to be on board , and these guys are less than 10% of the total in this area.
But what do I know, I am not some guy who sits around and plays on a computer all because I can't handel the stress on the ports.

[shortcircut]

I am not saying they can't make a difference, I am saying they are going about it the wrong way.

[OOC]

Nov 18, 2008 15:14:00 GMT -5 shortcircut said:

Pete , you are wasting your time and breath. The guys here think they are doing something new and that every one will listen to them.
The previous groups thought the same thing and look where they are , gone.
These guys are trying to reinvent the wheel ( manner of speaking) and since the Feb. meeting , where I introduced some of them to Jim Stewart , have accomplished absolutely nothing.
They want so bad to believe that they are making a difference , and are not. If they would just listen to the poeple who have been in this fight for a long time, maybe this group could learn from the previous mistakes that the others made.
It all comes down to numbers( membership).
To be taken serious, the majority of drivers and companies have to be on board , and these guys are less than 10% of the total in this area.
But what do I know, I am not some guy who sits around and plays on a computer all because I can't handel the stress on the ports.

Actually , we have accomplished a lot. It's whether or not you can look past your differences or not and realize this. I'll agree that to be ultimately effective membership has to grow. Thats a given , and to grow membership ....


We have created a website
Have a professionally published newsletter ( coming out this week)
Been featured in numerous media publications, including XM radio.
Have people out on the ground distributing info


This is all to due with basic organizing. You have to have the network established before you can get to info out!

Also, you can't realistically make that statement. You haven't been following closely , so in all fairness, you are not in a position to even say such a thing.


So yes, a majority is needed. The clear and simple truth is we are doing what is needed to create that membership base. To grow the numbers, to organize and at the same time work on strategy. It takes time to organize that many drivers.

Furthermore, from a site that boasts "let's have unity" I haven't heard one thing constructive. Instead of downing an organization due to personal differences, people should be working together to organize and move forward. Instead of making suggestions or trying to establish "collective" projects there is simply negativity from people who honestly don't know a thing about the organization or who is out here every day busting their butts.


Changing an industry requires work on all fronts. I just can't believe the attitude of some folks towards others who are working very hard to do right by our owner operator community.


If someone disagrees with a course of action, lets talk about it. Both sides need to be open to each other. Let's be constructive , not confrontational. Let's not judge before we know the facts.


I just cannot post all of the inner workings of what it is that this organization is doing. Anyone involved in any real effort understands that. There is progress being made, and to see it, you have to be involved. There is an opportunity here for everyone. If you truly want to see something grow to benefit us all, then become involved. Make it happen.

[petedabroker]

Paul, I wish you all the best of luck. I honestly hope appeasements will work, give a little take a little, at least for your organization.
I do respect your direction, and hope it works. That however differs, quite a bit, from the direction we are taking. I am not suggesting who is right, who might be wrong. All I am saying our positions differ so much, there is no common ground exception being our hope to finalize Owner Operators and Trucking Firms to share in its rewards. We want, nor seek any relationship with Steamship companies, port officials or politician's, for now. When we elect to start communicating with such, it will be on our terms, our choosing. We don't care who, out of the groups mentioned get their toes stepped upon. They been crushing the feet of the owner operators too long, and shall get a good and expected dose of their own medicines.

I do not speak for all here. I speak for myself only. I am also a members of this organizations executive board. So you organize all you want, we shall too. You have all the meetings, outings, parties, get togethers, you so desire, with that group. We conduct our business in quite a different manner. For now we do not desire nor seek their suggestions, admirations, or guidance. We have no desire to have them as friends, good buddies, or acquaintances. The day we do meet we shall be well prepared, with confirmed support, and heading in one direction.

For now we concentrate on this California Green, assuring their devious little games are all out in the open, being well attended, and totally understood by all who view. That is our first objective and once that problem is resolved, we then head back to our intended targets.

If I were to guess, some of our members were visiting your site, got either edited , canceled or none of the above. I don't know exactly what brought all that on. I can only speak for this organization and its intended purpose. I am sorry if you were offended, but realize boys will be boys. We cannot control freedom of speech and if a person were to get on this site and start problems, he or she would be allowed , but I believe they would be quite miffed and frustrated, as their result.

Paul, I am never against someone who is fighting for the same purpose as we are fighting. I can understand in theory the perception that one can gain alliances, by hard work, networking, and conversation. Please continue your dialog with them, if that is what you desire. That is your choice and your opinion to do such. We on the other hand hold a much different view, after years of having conversation, and networking. That was and believe still is a dead end tunnel.

[petedabroker]

Our approach is simple, we are building the bed , then making the invitations. Build it and they will come approach, all in place, well organized, making total sense. Others try to build the support first. We feel if you build, the best stadium in the town, they will show up and take batting practice, and eventually join the team. You got to show them something. Talk is cheap to the OO's, action is what they need.

[OOC]

Nov 18, 2008 17:21:40 GMT -5 petedabroker said:

Our approach is simple, we are building the bed , then making the invitations. Build it and they will come approach, all in place, well organized, making total sense. Others try to build the support first. We feel if you build, the best stadium in the town, they will show up and take batting practice, and eventually join the team. You got to show them something. Talk is cheap to the OO's, action is what they need.

Pete,


Couldn't agree more! I also feel that dialog should , and will be on our terms. We position ourselves not to be golf buddies with these people but rather someone who they will HAVE to consider when making their decisions. Furthermore, and also have them realize we will induce penalty to them if the situation warrants.

That said, I still feel it important for all sides representing owner operators to work collectively when possible.

You sir, are very correct in your observation over California. It's a mess larger than anyone expected. Hopefully, we mere mortals here on the east coast can build our structure to prevent this from happening here. Some say that SoCal is it's own theater. We feel its a model for what these jerks want everywhere. Time is of the essence to make sure this does not happen. I think this we can agree on.

[citytruck]

OOC keeps saying owner^operators. Is thatwhat you represent now? not all drivers? i was an o-o but not now so the dues money i gave at a OOC meeting were no benefit to me?

[shortcircut]

you gave your money away.

[shortcircut]

hello citytruck .
That is why you need to make sure the group you are interested in , is really going to represent your interests. The entire time that the drivers I worked with, and still keep in contact with, never asked for money. It wasn't that we didn't have a plan, we didn't feel it was right to ask for money .
We still talk and will be heard again, but, it will be after Christmas and the new Year.
I can't speak for everyone, but, i for one will never just laydown and let these shiplines and carriers walk all over me, and I know many who feel the same way.
With a new year, new surprises will follow.

[citytruck]

i do not know if i wasted it or not.i just want to know why now this is not about the driver just for only o-o .do drivers need to start a group?

[pkd5757]

Nov 18, 2008 9:59:39 GMT -5 @OOC said:

Nov 18, 2008 8:21:36 GMT -5 petedabroker said:

I am stating my opinion honestly here, not meaning to offend.
Paul, you have not a snowballs chance in hell , if you have any contact with the Steamship Lines in any decision making policy with your organization. I don't know how much clearer I could of painted that picture in my above posting. They will wine, dine, and puke all over your shirt. Remember you are dealing with the devil that started the whole mess. Yes, devil, not even as harsh as I wanted to be there. We are doing things behind the scene here. We are guided by one known fact. Never, never talk to the Steamship Lines. They quite honestly have nothing to add to our group. They will however be quite involved in changing their tactics as a result of our organization. That is how you deal with them, strong armed, hammer in hand, and beating them over the head.
Yes, they can read somethings we do but never the real good stuff here. We sort of let them read what we want them to read. How can you even suggest , their participation will add one thing, knowing they were behind this whole mess? How??? How can you members have even a shade of hope it will work out?
Let me ask you this very important question. Who do you think is also behind the California Green thing. Is it just the Teamsters that are trying to guide the labor issue? Who might benefit the most from controlled labor? Answer: Yes , the Teamsters and mostly the Steamship Lines. Do you believe the Teamsters are footing the whole bill there? Brother, you better put on your thinking cap. Why have they (i.e.) the Steamship Lines, not made even one public comment, when whatever happens in LA/LB has a very drastic effect on them? Why? Because they already are there, they already are helping, but all behind the scenes, like the little worms they are, always were, and always will be.

So basically, by including them into your group, you lie with the devil themselves. Your followers will go in the direction they promote. They give very little and take much. Right now, and as we speak, all of your members, including ours are servicing the Steamship Lines for free. Right now and as we speak, we are doing untold amounts of free container moves to both secure wheels and get equipment serviced. I can say this and without any doubt, this will all come to an end, and we will be getting our money back from them. I know this will happen , with the efforts of this organization. We will get them out of domestic transportation business, knowing they had no business being there int he first place. We will force them to service us well at the terminals, and nothing for free anymore. After all their very jobs were to make equipment available on both a safe and timely manner. Never , ever have they done that.
Here is a typical conversation between one of our union trucking companies and the Steamship Lines. Good morning Mr. Steamship, I was calling to verify that these ten containers were steamship cleared, custom cleared, mounted and ready to be pulled? No, you say, you are a grounded line and my driver needs to get a set of wheels, at your chassis depot and go and have it mounted themselves. Well do me a favor and call me when they are mounted. I will confirm all you stated on an email and send a copy to my importer and their CHB.
Good morning, Mr. Trucker here. Oh, how are you doing Mr. Steamship Company. Oh, the containers are mounted and ready to go. Gee, thanks so much , we will make all the moves today.
Have a great day sir. Paul, that is what will happen with us. I have no idea how your drivers will be handled. Remember Paul, they don't own that freight, my importer does. They are contracted to move it via ocean transport and make it available to be picked up. That is all they will do in future. Best of all, when delays happen, the fingers now get pointed in the direction of the delayer and not the trucker, as it should of been all along. Not enough labor at the terminals, not enough wheels, wheels that are in bad order, too much congestion, not the truckers problem, its the line problem. Importer/Exporter paying truckers for delays caused by the line, they move their business, to another line that services their needs in a cost effective and reasonable manner.
That simple. They cannot run and hide anymore, and certainly cannot blame others for their own deficiencies. The cat is out of the bag.

Pete,

You keep talking about the steamship lines. We are NOT involved with them save trying to get them to take responsibility for their equipment and get it fixed reducing driver trips to M&R. I can't figure why you keep assuming otherwise.
We work work to communicate issues to the Port's operations dept, community leaders , and political representatives.

OOC, thanks, everthing went through! Who gets paid to fix those chassis. Does the port authority hire the mechanics? Or is it a private firm that uses ILA mechanics? Either way it should be the person fixing the chassis that retrieves it to do repairs. We give them 15 minutes to repair a chassis if we brought it in needing a repair. Other than that, tag it and drop it! If they refuse to let you do that tell them your dropping it where it sits and then do it! Chassis suck everywhere, there are suppose to be new FMCSA/DOT regulations coming out shortly concerning whose responsible for fines and repairs of chassis. This is where working with the ILA can help you. Talk to the BA for the mechanics explaining the situation and how it's taking work from longshoremen.

[OOC]

Nov 18, 2008 19:40:08 GMT -5 @citytruck said:

i do not know if i wasted it or not.i just want to know why now this is not about the driver just for only o-o .do drivers need to start a group?

Citytruck,

First off, thanks for the support. Though we are titled the Owner Operators Coalition , we are working hard to address issues that affect all drivers. Terminal efficiency being listed one of the top concerns drivers listed when surveyed. There are quite a few members that work for local fleets or drive for someone else.

No , you did not give your money away. The meeting hall we use costs money. The info we distribute throughout the port requires funds to produce. During meetings, and at every meeting we give a detailed financial report so membership can see where the money goes. We pay close attention that no abuse occurs and any proposed expenditures must be approved by a majority vote of the committee.


pay no attention to the one individual who is making it his life's mission to smear us, and makes statements without the knowledge or data to back it up. This will happen anywhere. But the person who can best answer your question is you. Check out our website, take advantage of the resources we are working on and voice your concerns at a meeting. I'm sure that you will feel it is a worthy organization to be a part of building.


Furthermore, Personally, if you have any other issue and need help, of want information, any member of the committee will be there to give a hand.

[shortcircut]

citytruck,
what people fail to realize is that everyone is affected, not just owneroperators. many people are being left out. Not all company drivers are paid by the hour. some are paid by commission, some by the pull.
Everyone needs to be included. There are many small company owners who also operate a truck and have 2 , 3, maybe even more, but are leased to large carriers.
Everyone needs to be included and can be.
I am sure these companies are tired of their drivers sitting for hours at a time.
I know of a couple agents who are watching this whole mess and would be willing to work with a organized group that may be working towards the same goal as them.
Just give it about 5 to 6 weeks, you will see new things and may just want to explore every option.

[OOC]

PKD,


Yes, the chassis are maintained by the ILA. There are a couple of different sub-contracted services throughout the terminals but all work is done by the ILA mechanics.
We have here, what is called HRCP. Hampton Roads Chassis Pool. It is a co-op of serviceman that collectively maintain the equip. However officials at HRCP are "FULL OF IT" They claim on their website that 98% of the available chassis are in good working order. We all know this is not true.

We can not drop equipment on our terminals unless it was tagged in the inspection process. The more trips drivers make to M&R the more money is made off of the free labor the drivers are forced to donate. If you decide to drop the equipment , you will be back billed over $300.00 for a mis-park.

WE are working hard on this. It is essentially a forced labor issue which occurs on state property. Furthermore, our contracts don't hold us liable nor are the motor carriers in the Universal Interchange agreements they sign with The Ship Lines.

We already filed a Freedom of Information Act request pertaining to this and will be getting the results soon.


This whole deal is essentially the Port imposing on us to oversee maintenance of shipline owned equip and non of us are compensated. Only 2 of the 120+ motor carriers pay a couple extra dollars for lengthy port time. Every time a driver goes to M&R a billable item is created. One that we don't get anything for but lose tons of time. There are motor carriers who also want to bill for the drivers times but are afraid to do it alone.

This practice is in question, legally. We will see the outcome soon hopefully.


You mentioned the new FMSCA rulings on intermodal equip. I've read those too. The problem is the language listing responsibility is very lose and the Feds usually leave it up to private parties to pursue enforcement of violations. OOIDA was present and gave comments to congress about the new rules. There should be some light at the end of this tunnel.

[OOC]

Nov 18, 2008 20:09:07 GMT -5 shortcircut said:

citytruck,
what people fail to realize is that everyone is affected, not just owneroperators. many people are being left out. Not all company drivers are paid by the hour. some are paid by commission, some by the pull.
Everyone needs to be included. There are many small company owners who also operate a truck and have 2 , 3, maybe even more, but are leased to large carriers.
Everyone needs to be included and can be.
I am sure these companies are tired of their drivers sitting for hours at a time.
I know of a couple agents who are watching this whole mess and would be willing to work with a organized group that may be working towards the same goal as them.
Just give it about 5 to 6 weeks, you will see new things and may just want to explore every option.

Uh , yeah man. Read my response. A couple of our most active members are company drivers that get paid on a "per load" basis. We don't leave that aspect of the driver population out. If there are agents willing to commit , that would be great. If that materializes, it will be a good thing.

[shortcircut]

city truck, keep checking this post . When it materializes in January, it will be posted here. The guys I am working withe are NOT part of the ooc and do NOT wish to be.
We have other options and resources that may be of interest to you .

[shortcircut]

AND I PROMISE THIS , THE OOC WILL NOT GET ANY MORE INFO FROM MYSELF OR THE GUYS I AM WORKING WITH. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN, THAT IS GUARANTEED.

[OOC]

Nov 18, 2008 20:41:27 GMT -5 shortcircut said:

AND I PROMISE THIS , THE OOC WILL NOT GET ANY MORE INFO FROM MYSELF OR THE GUYS I AM WORKING WITH. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN, THAT IS GUARANTEED.

lol. we are not asking.

[OOC]

Nov 18, 2008 20:41:27 GMT -5 shortcircut said:

AND I PROMISE THIS , THE OOC WILL NOT GET ANY MORE INFO FROM MYSELF OR THE GUYS I AM WORKING WITH. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN, THAT IS GUARANTEED.

Really though, you will be more successful being constructive in reaching your goals than you will be posting things that are confrontational. Things can always be up for discussion, that goes both ways, on both sides. However voicing negativity for the sake of being negative every chance you get will not help in the long run. In fact , what you are doing is promoting alienation. Whatever you do, if it helps the drivers community.... kudos. But what is going on personally really should stop.


Just a thought.